Fr. Andrew: In the noun form, right, when its used for the thing on the top of the ark of the covenant, as mercy-seat, which is lovely. Stephen: [Laughter] Right. Consequently, I greeted the arrival of Fr. I think weve seen tonight how a lot of discussions of atonement are based on reading backwards, so you start with a developed theological idea, read it back into the New Testament, and then from there back into the Old Testament, instead of what we hopefully did with reasonable success tonight, which is start in the Old Testament and read forward and see how things unfold. Hes not sacrificed to anybody. Fr. The Religion of the Apostles presents the Orthodox Christian Church of today as a continuation of the religious life of the . Andrew: Yeah, and some people out there are probably like: Why are they emphasizing this? And the reason is that a lot of Reformation theology kind of hangs on the idea that the goat is being punished, that the goat does have But, again, look what it says. [Disgusted noises] All this disillusioning. On the Origin of Watchers: A Comparative Study of the Antediluvian Wisdom in Mesopotamian and Jewish Traditions, The Antediluvian Origin of Evil in the Mesopotamian and Jewish Traditions A Comparative Study, Response to Ken Ammi's review of my paper - "Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic? 19, Midrash and Aggadah Mourning, eds. They are teaching you and giving you the proclamation of Christ. Andrew: Thats what it is. I mean, the nature of this podcast is notthe purpose of it, I should sayis not to be apologetical; were not here to say, This is why Catholics and Protestants and various other kinds of religious people are wrong! But in this particular case, even though this episode is not primarily apologetical, as the whole podcast is not, there is a disconnect that happens for people when they read the Scriptures and, as weve seen, bring a lot of assumptions into the Scriptures. Fr. Maybe he was So thats that pro-devil propaganda stuff again. Well, weve looked at this one particular ritual, and now we know what it does, and it does the same thing in us, for us, around us, throughout the whole cosmos. With the Day of Atonement ritual, theres two goats, a goat for Yahweh and a goat thats sent off to Azazel, but I thought in Matthew 25 it said that goats go to hell.
The Whole Counsel of God: An Introduction to Your Bible: Stephen De Stephen: Ruined, yeah. Fr. Journal for The Study of The Pseudepigrapha, Online Heidelberg Journal of Religions on the Internet, Corrupting the Image 2: Hybrids, Hades, and the Mt Hermon Connection, Corrupting the Image vol 2: Hybrids, Hades, and the Mt Hermon Connection, Lamhfada: An Online Magazine of Myth and Story. Stephen: [Laughter] Uh-oh! Fr. Well, its Goat Week on The Lord of Spirits podcast! Stephen De Young continues the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 13. So St. Luke is doing this narratively, and Hebrews is just giving it to us theologically, explaining it to us. Stephen De Young discusses verses 19 and 20 of Galatians, Chapter 3. Andrew: And so he had to do some kind of ritual purification. Photius: Yes, sir. Fr. Fr. Now, this doesnt mean, like, he was Santa, keeping a list all year, like the high priest was going around spying on people and seeing all the stuff they did and writing it down. Academia.edu no longer supports Internet Explorer. Fr. Welcome to the second half of the show, here on Goat Week at The Lord of Spirits podcast. I will not.
Romans Chapter 11 - The Whole Counsel of God - Ancient Faith Theyre claiming some kind of economic theory of atonement here! Yeah, no. All right. Stephen: The high priest would place his hands on the goat, on its head, to designate it for this purpose, and he would What is says is he would recite the sins of Israel. So all of this is being done on this day because of his appearance. Fr. [Laughter]. Stephen De Young concludes the discussion of Romans 10. Its not like magic wood that they went and found in the enchanted forest. Fr. So, yeah, its literally the Day of AtoCovering. Okay, sono, its good. How does him healing diseases fulfill that? Andrew: Here we go. I love it when the fundamental unity between the old and new covenants is shown. Stephen: No, no, enjoy what you like. Fr. But, before we get there, a couple of things we have to say at the very outset: All references to the atonement in the New Testament are explicitly about the Day of Atonement ritual. It says: And the whole earth has been corrupted by the teaching of the works of Azazel. So whats important here is just we need this blood from this goat, from this pure and blameless goat.
God Is a Man of War: The Problem of Violence in the Old So its just these common things that they had in the camp, but then theyre taken and theyre consecrated and theyre set aside by being sprinkled with blood. Andrew: [Dramatic groan] Brutal! Thank you so much! He took our infirmities upon himself. And, as you can imagine, thats taken in a certain direction. Stephen: Right, and what St. Matthew conveys there with His blood be on us and on our children in narrative theology, Hebrews just comes out and says, in Hebrews 9:18-22, that says, They were sprinkled with the blood. And I looked this up: what is the earliest use of this word? Fr. Stephen De Young, I felt I had finally come home. Dont the daily offerings cover it? Stephen: The Antiochus was obviously a family name of the Seleucid dynasty, and they all took these titles. Andrew: Hey, Dan. Fr. The only time it happens is this, and that animal is not sacrificed. Whats the deal with this super-big day of offering? So that works is brought in there, that hes doing the works of his father, the evil one. Fr. The answer, according to Fr. Stephen: And now Ive pre-empted the Where can I read more about this? messages we get after most episodes. Fr. But is this like the one time you can touch it, when this ritual being performed, or is it sort of sprinkled from afar? This has just not been my day. Emmaus isnt mentioned anywhere else in the Bible except 1 Maccabees and St. Lukes gospel right here. Dan: Yeah, the second question was: What was it about their understanding of the goats blood that was understood to have a cleansing or sanctifying effect over the various parts of the holy of holies and the Temple that you guys discussed? So theres this orderly, beautiful, purified, sacred space where God dwells with his people, and then chaos is whats on the outside. You know, that makes total sense. Fr. Now, most people, when they think of atonement in the New Testament, if I came to someone just at random and said, Hey, where would I go in the New Testament to read about atonement? they would probably not immediately say 1 John. At first, it appears the book will address these questions, for Fr.
The Religion of the Apostles | Fr. Stephen De Young - YouTube The Bible refers to people who are (generically) tall, (generically) very tall, or (generically) of great stature. Weve got a few things that we kind of need to sort of mention, and its interesting actually: the first thing thats on our list, which is in our notes, was something someone actually sent to me saying, Hey, you guys going to mention this? and thats the image of whats called the Suffering Servant in Isaiah 53. Luke uses the Day of Atonement imagery to describe Christ as being the goat that is sent to Yahweh. Fr. Is he just saying, Im going to come into this. Stephen: So where combinations have been made. Fr. Mike Schmitz), Let's Read the Gospels with Annie F. Downs, Fr. Stephen: Yeah, youre rubbing it into a bunch of people. And so, start with a verse near and dear to my heart, because I spent a chunk of my life with it, and thats 1 John 2:2. It doesnt matter if someone in the back was complaining; it doesnt matter about fake coughing: he had to do a lot of incense, because the incense was covering. Fr. Fr. Im Fr. Fr. These lists include some notes and clarifications later shared by Fr. Basically, you extract its blood. I can tell you all about Arrakis, the desert planet; I can tell you all about Gallifrey; I can tell you all about Nimbus [III], the planet of galactic peace. Stephen: Right, but what happens is, in sort of the symbolic mindhi, Jonathanof the Jewish people, sheep and lambs become associated with Passover. Stephen De Young begins the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12. Fr. We just walked through the Day of Atonement ritual, the goat for Yahweh, the goat for Azazel, and what those things mean. Stephen: Yeah, you could pretty safely use the same list every year, because all of that had happened again. Fr. So tonight were wrapping up this three-part series on sacrifice by talking about atonement. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:1-4)-period (keep the "reliably" qualifier in mind). Fr. This video is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. [Laughter] Its the opposite! Fr. Hebrews 9: Likewise he sprinkled the tent and all the vessels used in the worship with the blood. So the correct translation is not only for our sins, but for the whole world. The words, those of, do not occur. And he isnt told, Dont call unclean what Ive created, or Dont call unclean what I tell you is clean, but: Do not call unclean what I have made clean.. Yeah, yeah. Fr. Stephen: Can you hear me? was your one question for tonight, unfortunately. [Laughter] Dont the daily offerings cover it? These are possibly the basis of the Greek Gigantomachy, which was condemned by the Risen Christ as Satans Throne, both genetically and spiritually. What is spiritual reality like? I have this crazy new doctrine of God I want everyone to follow me on. But, yeah, theres this reference in 1 John 3:12, which makes reference of Cain being of the wicked one, who murders his brother. The Very Rev. But its the only is an adverb, not an adjective. Fr. The reality is more like what we were talking about tonight that we see unfold in the Scriptures with atonement and everything else, that there are these cosmic realities of spiritual warfare, of Christ defeating the powers of evil, of Christ setting us free and purifying us, making us holy and setting us apart and bringing us into his kingdom; that are cosmic realities that each of us has been given the gift of being able to participate in, in time. Stephen: So both of them have to be perfect and unblemished, because theyre going to be used for two different purposes, but which one is used for which purpose is decided by lot. He comes specifically to do combat with the evil one. Fr. Its a direct reference. 1 John 2:1 talks about Christ as the high priest who intercedes in prayer, and then 2:2 says that Christ is the atonement, not only for our sins but also for the whole world. These studies were recorded live and include questions from his audience. ), Ancient Tales of Giants from Qurman and Turfan: Contexts, Traditions, and Influences (Tbingen: Mohr Siebeck, 2016), The Landscape of Memory: Giants and the Conquest of Canaan. Are these just religious-sounding synonyms for good things or bad things? So thats the idea. Christ is the High Priest who does this final Day of Atonement, the one that ends them all. And he takes that over from this Second Temple literature. The Bible provides us with some similes pertaining to height. The goat is notthis goat is not punished or abused in any way. Fr. Praise for God is a Man of War. Facebook You know what Im saying? That makes perfect sense. Andrew: Cool. You guys are all asking the wrong questions! Stephen: So what you see, after that indictment is read, in 1 Enoch and in Slavonic Enoch and in the Apocalypse of Abraham, the same thing happens to Azazel in all of them: Azazel gets bound and chained up and thrown into a hole in the ground and imprisoned there until the end of days, until the day of the Lord, at which point he will be released briefly and then thrown into the lake of fire. Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen: [Laughter] So, yeah, how granular do I want to go? What does it mean? It sounds like were FBI profilers. Not so great for the goat, but it keeps that from happening, which would be a very awkward moment. 190 Court St, Charleston, WV 25301 | Phone: 304-346-0106 | Email: office@stgeorgecharleston.org. Fr. Stephen holds a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. So, in fact, youll see someIm trying to remember if the King James does thisa lot of older English biblical translations, instead of saying, They will choose a goat for Azazel, says, Its one for Yahweh and one for a scapegoat. And this is what theyre doing; theyre translating it rather than taking it as a name. Andrew: Exactly. All right, well, lets talk about St. Lukes gospel, and, of course, Acts; these two kind of form a single narrative together, with just the In the former treatise, O Theophilus, at the beginning. Stephen: You mean butterflies arent curdled dairy products? So some people will try to will want to translate Azazel, instead of seeing it as a name, as a proper name, will want to translate it as something like the goat who goes away. This is where scapegoat comes from, because scape- like escape. Escape is go away: the goat that goes away. Stephen: Right, its a practicality. Theyre not just saying and this is what happened next! All right. Rabbinic Judaism was invented specifically in reaction to Christianity, and involved systematically expunging aspects of their theological pedigree that overlapped with the Christian faith. Stephen: the altar, the ark of the covenant, the other fixtures of the tabernacle in order to purify them, in order to remove that taint thats been left there, thats gathered there because of the sins of the people, because of the sins of the community over the course of the year, to purify it again. Just so you all know, its really good. Stephen: Were going to talk about this more in the second half, but Azazel, this spirit, is seen as sort of the source of sin and corruption that has come into the camp, and so its basically being sent back to it. Andrew: Yeah, so its an interesting point because what is St. Matthew doing? So those are some of my take-aways from our conversation this evening. Its sort of spiritual entropy, so to speak. Andrew: Thats fine. Andrew: It was. So not only for our sins, which are taken away, but for the whole world, which is now purified and made holy and sacred, first in potency, first, as with everything eschatological, this is happening in real time, like we talked about in our Halloween episode, but this will ultimately come to fruition, then, in the new heavens and the new earth, just as, right now the evil one is bound and in a hole, and hell be chucked in the lake of fire then at that latter point. Fr. Fr. I mean, were doing daily offerings for sin in ancient Israel. They see this as a kind or type of atonement. Fr. Here's the link to the Revelation 7 episode that he mentions: ancientfaith.com/podcasts/wholecounsel/revelation_7_1_8. Fr. Fr. Fr. Genesis, 6:1-4. They think that sins are put on animals and then the animals sacrificed to Godthat never happens in the Scripture anywhere. And that can lead to a lot of despair. Its not anti-Semitic. Im like: the rope thing is awesome! Dr. Stephen De Young, creator of the popular The Whole Counsel of God blog and podcast, traces the lineage of Orthodox Christianity back to the faith and witness of the apostles, which was rooted in a first-century Jewish worldview. Whats going on there? Send it out. the notoriously difficult Gen. 6:1-4 (Stuckenbruck 355). Andrew: I feel like that could be on a t-shirt. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, thats cool. You also find in 1 John 5:19 the whole world lies under the power of the evil one.. Stephen: Im Um, actually"ing you in real time. Stephen De Young and Fr. There are sort of a handful, I think four or five, uses of it in the first century AD and later, and like half of those are by Plutarch, by one author. But, right, so atonement, at-one-ment: I looked this up, so I have on my desk a gigantic dictionary called the Oxford English Dictionary. I was pleased to encounter Sorensens Response to Ken Ammis review of my paper Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic? since I am always up for a discussion, always up for correction, and always up for sharpening iron with ironeven when it tends to lead to someone getting cut. Stephen: Yeah. They werent like that. Fr. Photius: No, they dont. It has this sort of importance as a major battle site. The definition is not as simple as it may seem, since some may employ it metaphorically such as referring to a giant of industry. Ill take it. There is this battle thats fought. Andrew: Yeah, which were actually about to show you how its the opposite. Stephen: But so if we go back, then, to the Semitic root thats behind all this, you end up with what are called kefir verbs. Stephen: In any way. Follow Stephen De Young and explore their bibliography from Amazon.com's Stephen De Young Author Page. What happens next?
Atonement - The Whole Counsel Blog Fr. And then the whole idea, not just in general terms but in its specifics, is picked up wholesale by St. John the Evangelist in the Johannine literature. Fr. Fr. Now the thing that has been done in part is now being done totally in full. Like, Oh, its nice that he wrote some letters. But the Church read these out loud in liturgy and preserved them and theologized on the basis of them, and this is from the beloved apostle who leaned on Christs breast at the Last Supper.
Atonement for the Whole World - The Whole Counsel Blog So when Peter is called to go see Cornelius the centurion whos a Roman, whos a Gentile, whos from one of the pagan nations, he sees this vision of the animals, the formerly unclean animals, being lowered in this cloth. Stephen: Weve talked about that theres kind of an anti-theosis that happens. When it comes to the biblical context, there are at least four issues to consider: Some English versions translate two Hebrew words by using the one vague, generic, subjective, and, I submit to you, un-biblical term giants. I expected the book to be my final vindication in dozens of ongoing debates with well-meaning brothers and sisters who keep telling me that knowledge of the Second Temple period (roughly the period in Jewish history from the reconstruction of the Temple at the time of Nehemiah through it its destruction in AD 70) is neither necessary nor helpful for understanding the New Testament. Stephen often asks is not What does this mean? but What does this do? And that is the most important question to ask when youre looking at ritual in Scripture, and then, of course, as ritual gets repeated and reused and all of this kind of stuff in the rest of Scripture and in the Church Fathers and the divine services and so forth, what does this actually do? He says they put a reed in his hand; its the exact same word for reed. And then they took the reed from him and struck him with it. Stephen: And then as Hebrews again makes plain in Hebrews 11-12, Christ dies outside the camp. Fr. As they well should! Mike Schmitz), The Catechism in a Year (with Fr. [Laughter]. Fr. Fr. Stephen: Actually, it was sprinkled with the finger, so the high priest would have a bowl in which the blood was collected, and he smears it with his finger on pretty much everything but the ark. Stephen: Yeah, I hope youve got a pigeon, a lamb, and a young ox.. Fr. [Laughter] where it describes what Tubal-cain created. Collective Identity and Collective Memory: Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomistic History in Their Context, eds. Why is that aww! So the Torah and its rituals, including the Day of Atonement, cant be an end in themselves. Stephen began dismantling many assumptions that had been part of the taken-for-granted background to my understanding of Christian origins.
God Is a Man of War: The Problem of Violence in the Old Testament: De Stephen: This idea of, Hey, maybe the serpent in Eden was telling the truth. Stephen: That would be like an inception; yeah, that might be good. Photius: Oh, man! Mr. Stephen De Young is an Orthodox priest. Fr. But were going to talk about the goat for Yahweh first. So thats why we say this is an Angel of the Lord figure in the technical sense in the Old Testament: the Son of man, the Angel of the Lord, this second Person of Yahweh. Andrew: Yeah [Laughter] So they just kind of perpetuated what had been done before. That is not a false etymology, although usually etymologies that go like that are; theyre just nonsense. Stephen De Young Easily the most important work in Pauline Studies, and likely in Biblical Studies as a whole, of the current decade is Matthew Thomas' published Oxford dissertation, Paul's "Works of the Law" in the Perspective of Second Century Reception. Stephen De Young finishes up the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12, and starts on Chapter 13. Stephen: And the people, they mock him and they spit on him. Fr. Fr. You guys are all wrong! Stephen: Yeah, and hes often associated with other symbols like the caduceus of enlightenment and that kind of thing, but well talk about that more here in the second half. Fr. Fr. Welcome to The Lord of Spirits podcast. In addition to chapters on the Trinity and atonement, the book features sections on the powers of the spiritual world, the saints, creation, Israel, and the law of God. Stephen: Yeah, it was Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Stephen: The blood comes and purifies, and then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell there. Fr. 15K views Streamed 1 year ago Fr. Stephens historical research dismantled beliefs that I held in common with thousands of other modern Christians about the Bible and its teachings. Andrew: Yeah. Does it have anything to do with suffering or punishment? https://t.co/34f7bN9K4d, The intellectual life is like a love affair, or like prayer. The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century Fr. Fr. ,The Whole Counsel of God: An Introduction to Your Bible
Galatians, Introduction - The Whole Counsel of God - Ancient Faith To browse Academia.edu and the wider internet faster and more securely, please take a few seconds toupgrade your browser. But the problemand we already talked about this a bit with Fr. Fr. Theyre preserved for us in Slavonic and were being copied in monasteries in the Orthodox world right up into the 16th century when the printing press was invented, so they were being deliberately preserved for us within the Church, not just accidentally we found them in the desert somewhere.. Again, this isnt just a random connection. So hes being directly connected. Coming from a Protestant background and having read Revelations a couple of times.
The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First [Laughter]. So, yeah, but that understanding of it is responsible for a lot of Western Christianity. Andrew: [Laughter] Yeah, actually we looked this up and we could find no link, but who knows? Andrew: Yes, right, so the idea is to take the sins of the people and get them out of the place where sin does not belong. Oh, man, whats happening here? [Laughter] I just need to read this word.
How Fr. Stephen De Young's book, "The Religion of the Apostles Fr.
Amazon.com: Stephen De Young: books, biography, latest update Fr. Fr. Andrew: Okay, well, so related to that, actually, we have a caller. Stephen: Antiochus IVEpiphanes was not his last name. Andrew: Yeah.
Five-ish Angelic Falls and Three Human Falls - Copious Flowers Stephen De Young, and Ancient Faith Ministries, Fr. While underscoring the continued need to take into account the historical context that forms the background to the New Testament (at least I got that right), Fr. Fr. Were talking about atonement, and weve just taken a really whirlwind trip through the New Testament, just, I dont know, astonishingly beautiful stuff, looking at how Christ is both goats in the Day of Atonement ritual. Stephen De Young. The blood is used, the blood is smeared, wiped, used to cover. Okay, were going to go ahead and take our second break, and well be back with the third half of The Lord of Spirits.
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